Curse

Aragiel Cz · Aug 15, 2008, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Well after playing few games i have to say. This is a great update !
There is only one think missing - i will explaint that later.

1) NPC not walking to the stand are fine- now noone can cry about NPC farming and broken VOD mechanism
2) Guild Lord not walking to the stand is even better because that means you have to push true enemyes base and actually face all NPC there. Which mean split builds are not dead and turtling itself lead to lose because your lord will get lot of dmg and you will lose after 28min tie breakers
3) I mentioned there is something missing - i think something that will speed up the game after 18min mark. Let say this should be connected to the flagstand. For example For every moraleboost your team will get +5% dmg bonus after 18 min mark. This can speed up the fight and it´s very fair - because only team that is able run flag and get boost should achieve that bonus. (just an idea - because 28min for one match is really too much and also it can avoit KAMIKADZE TACTIC)

Mr. Undisclosed · Aug 16, 2008, 01:16 AM // 01:16

O hai welcome 2 my base care to gank my npcs?

Bowstring Badass · Aug 16, 2008, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Undisclosed

O hai welcome 2 my base care to gank my npcs?

Think ill kill your bodyguard then dps your lord. Leaving knights and everything else.

NightOwl · Aug 17, 2008, 04:32 AM // 04:32

I'm not too thrilled with the update. It's too focused on the guild lord now, making the rest of the battle pretty pointless. No matter how you shut down the opposing team, regardless of killing every npc they have, no matter how you keep them parked in their base...it's just the guild lord. It's almost worth bringing group speed boosts (Charge!) and both teams ignoring each other to go for the opposing guild lord. Doesn't matter if you get a kill, in fact, as long as your lord survives.

It reminds me too much of HA now, and I was never an HA fan. Your objective is this, and only this, and the hell with the rest of it. I liked that some would split, that some wouldn't, that there were multiple things going on, and doing different things throughout the match had advantages (split to gank a few npcs, bodyguards were a threat, keep flagstand control, fire catapults, etc). Now...now it's just so...much like HA, with different maps.

I can understand the frustration some had with the flagstand turtle, but going in this direction was excessive. Back to the old way, but having the npcs spread out when they were in flagstand range would have been the next logical step, in my opinion.

FoxBat · Aug 17, 2008, 04:54 AM // 04:54

I have yet to see these amazing zergways on observe. What I have seen? Burning arrow rangers solo-ganking "worthless" archers. Less knee-jerk theorycraft complaints and more playing IMO.

With this change can we just kick the tiebreaker in faster, like 20 or 25? I'm sure making tournaments last less than an eon will only encourage participation.

NightOwl · Aug 17, 2008, 06:14 AM // 06:14

Interesting. I see those burning arrow r/mos too...clearing out vital npcs to make access to the GL, and running right past the rest of 'em.

DutchSmurf · Aug 17, 2008, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

I have yet to see these amazing zergways on observe. What I have seen? Burning arrow rangers solo-ganking "worthless" archers. Less knee-jerk theorycraft complaints and more playing IMO.

I've seen them, looks like they are most effective against teams with rangers who keep using their conditions. Without that, they didn't look that hard do deal with. About those ranger gankers, the only time I've seen that being effective was when the other team was lots higher ranked then the other. In most cases it gave more problems then it was worth. It is funny how in the last 2 minutes people just rush into the bases and try to do the most dps, even leaving the bodyguard alive. Games that would have ended far earlier in the old system now get decided by the tiebreaker.

I like how the focus is now back on the original goal. Killing the lord is what the format should be about after all. It does needs more work tho. Like the Amulet of Protection needs work. It should be the same all match in my opinion. Some kind of VoD shout might be helpful too. What Izzy can also consider is using the "PvP-hex" to add a maximum health or something. That might encourage spikebuilds, but with the easier access to the lords (add that amulet that needs work), you might be able to easily beat them.

Striken7 · Aug 20, 2008, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajc2123

What do you want gvg to be like? ...

This will be a fairly long post, I will do my best to break it up:

First, bring back VoD, gates, and Thieves, and add the later to all maps for a little uniformity (one of the areas GvG has always lacked as a competitive PvP game IMO). It's okay for scenery and environmental effects to change (vines creating shortcuts, quicksand slowing down enemies, lava causing burning, etc.), but the key mechanic for gaining entry to the Base/Lord should be absolutely uniform across all maps.

Now, just need modify the VoD mechanic a bit. No "Victory or Death!" effect or similar, because stupid buffs are stupid, but move it up to 14 minutes (because GvG's could be dreadfully long, Anet got that right).

At VoD, the gates open, and the flag stand stops functioning. This is key, because it necessitates 12-14 minutes of hard fighting at the flag stand to build up as much Morale and Guild Lord health as possible, because at 14 minutes, it's time to fight for the win (also, this means no more Res Sigs recharge after VoD). Players who have less than 60% DP would continue to res every 2 minutes and could of course be hard ressed.

Any remaining NPC's do not leave the base at VoD, but instead move to fortify the Guild Lord's position (this includes the Guild Thief, who will no longer resurrect or be controllable after VoD). The Footmen and Knights take up front line positions about half the distance from the gates to the Lord. The Archers form up behind them, with Bodyguards healing in the back (Bodyguards and Knights have actually moved away from the Guild Lord, while Footmen and Archers have moved closer). We know Anet can program the AI to function as a military unit, they did it with the Charr in GWEN, so the code exists (at least partially).

Turtling is now useless without the VoD death march and the increased importance of the flag stand, but splitting is still possible, and in many ways more decisive then in the old format. It will of course leave your team short-handed at the crucial flag stand battle during the first 14 minutes, but because the NPC's are 1) Much more easily killed before VoD kicks in, and 2) Very important to base defense after VoD, it can be very, very worth while to kill a few Footmen/Archers/Knights in the first half of the match. The Guild Lord's Amulet of Protection would still be in effect, plus the damage done to the Lord does not effect the tie-breaker any more (as I will describe below) so rushing the Lord is futile while killing NPC's remains key.

On the other hand of the split, moving players back to defend against one in the first 14 minutes can equate the team sizes at the flag stand. The same old tactic of killing the Thief still applies though, meaning defending a split/gank is generally easier to do then actually performing it, keeping the majority of the focus on the flag stand until VoD (unless you have a really good split, in which case it can mean winning the match).

At VoD, the flag stand stops working and the gates are open. First scenario: one team pushes hard at the other teams base. Depending on how many NPC's the attackers have killed and the current Morale situation, reaching the Lord can either be very hard, or very easy. Depending on how many NPC allies the defenders have alive, the defending team can easily force the other team out and/or execute a split of their own. Basically, a bunch of good fighting no matter what.

Second scenario, both teams make a mad rush at the Lord. This becomes a DPS race, and again is extremely dependent on the number of surviving NPC's as well as the Guild Lords health gained from the flag stand. Exciting for everyone.

As a side note, because the Bodyguards/Knights have moved away from the Lord at VoD, Assassination attempts could be "safely" made on the Lord. Of course if the defending team has competent Monks in the area, and depending on the health of the Lord, it may or may not pay off, but it would be successful in distracting those Monks for a minute or two. And I say "safely" because you certainly would not want to send a lone Assassin to face the re-formed NPC army. It would require pressure from the whole team to allow a single player to reach the Lord's chambers.

The tie-breaker comes at 28 minutes, at which point the team with the highest NPC Morale wins. If it's technically possible, and I think it should be without much tweaking, the morale of the NPC's as a whole could be tracked just like team morale is tracked for the players: It goes up with Morale Boosts, and goes down when an NPC dies.

The amount that morale would drop should scaled based on the NPC killed, encouraging the killing of high profile targets. Footmen only drop it a little, then Archers, Knights, and finally Bodyguards, whose deaths have a (comparatively) significant impact on NPC morale. Of course, one Bodyguard wouldn't have the ability to cancel out killing 6 or 8 footman/archers, but I would say somewhere in the range of 1 Bodyguard death equals the morale loss of 3 Footmen deaths. Every time the Thief is killed (because Thieves would resurrect prior to VoD), it equals half of a Footmen death. 1 Archer = 1.5 Footmen, 1 Knight = 2 Footmen. Of course, it's meaningless if in those final 14 minutes a team kills the Lord.

And that, in no short form, is my ideal GvG format.

Mr. Undisclosed · Aug 20, 2008, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

Think ill kill your bodyguard then dps your lord. Leaving knights and everything else.

np, help yourself.

Teh [prefession]-zorz · Aug 21, 2008, 07:55 AM // 07:55

whoever is the sneakiest and gets past the ncps to wand the Guildlord wins.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Aug 21, 2008, 12:09 PM // 12:09

Just don't suck or play defensive shit and you'll win before 28 minutes.

keli · Aug 21, 2008, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Just don't suck or play defensive shit and you'll win before 28 minutes.

at least change the stupid tiebreaker system, this is rediclous right now, it is almost impossible with a non-split team to win for example in frozen isle, the enemy will split you and you cant do shit, since they will survive for 28 minutes if they want to, and they will be able to damage your lord hardly

at least f*cking change back the tie breaker if they wont change the "lord vod"

prince percilitor · Aug 21, 2008, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by keli

at least change the stupid tiebreaker system, this is rediclous right now, it is almost impossible with a non-split team to win for example in frozen isle, the enemy will split you and you cant do shit, since they will survive for 28 minutes if they want to, and they will be able to damage your lord hardly

how wipe the staying force and attack their GL?

also edit buttons there for a reason

keli · Aug 21, 2008, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by prince percilitor

how wipe the staying force and attack their GL?

also edit buttons there for a reason

sure its just a matter of seconds to wipe 2 hex breaker monks and+1 defensive char like me/e+npcs+ your party wich defends the lord will die once, so you dont have endless time, + if you are going to break them, they will run back from your base and kill your attacker group if you dont retreat(because they can close the door or bodyblock or slow you down)

(and yes im farming comments i have 246 now onoez)

scruffy · Aug 24, 2008, 05:40 AM // 05:40

i think the trick here is to find a way to not let them rush your lord using some form of balancedish build

ajc2123 · Aug 26, 2008, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Striken7

Everything you said up there

Wow, I really really REALLY like that Idea of GvG. Just make sure when the NPC's 'fortify' the GL, that they don't get too close for a Massive AoE spell lol.

I kind of think(Excluding certain NPC's like rangers guarding gates and such or fighters right infront of the gates.) that the other NPC's not stated above should patrol the Guild Hall in a set path much like monsters do in PvE, but in a defensive way. I just think that NPC's sitting still are just asking to be killed.

If a split team doesn't move fast enough they can find themselves being mobbed by around 4 groups of NPC's, depending on the set paths of the NPC's

Akaraxle · Aug 27, 2008, 08:19 AM // 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Striken7

And PvE, in no short form, is my ideal GvG format.

oh ok

12chars

jana_the_stranger · Aug 27, 2008, 09:04 AM // 09:04

every team can choose x-numbers of npc's and put them wherever they want (in their own base ofcourse!

Teutonic Paladin · Aug 27, 2008, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Striken7

Alot of stuff

This is just begging for AoE abuse. They'd have to be very careful to keep that many archers apart and it'd be virtually impossible to prevent the knight/footmen from getting balled up. Also, many of the complaints about GvG from top players have been based around being required to fight against the AI, this brings that issue back into the game.

However, it certainly would be a lot more interesting than what I'm playing now.